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 Post subject: Once again...
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2009, 11:53 
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Before I start I'd like to remind you this is Sanctuary Mzz :)

Last year, after I broke up with my boyfriend (the one that went to the us) I started dating a friend's brother who I had actually hooked up with when I was like...16. It was nothing too serious, but we were faithfull and I met his friends and family (to be fair I already knew his family, but whatever). after 4 months of dating I broke it off 'cause of my stupid ex.
A few months after that, I think February, we bumped into each other at a disco, and I ended up going home with him....and we kept doing that every weekend, typical booty call @ 2 am for the past 5 months. I really like the guy, and I'd like to take it just a bit further...I mean, I'm confortable with things as they are atm, but going out to see a movie or have a few drinks like a normal "couple" ain't gonna kill us. I told him that last night, and gave him an ultimatum; next time we saw each other it had to be on a date. Now, I'm not trying to push the guy, but my argument is pretty strong....I just don't want to get hurt, and I know I'm falling for him.
My problem is, is it worth it? Last night he was really defensive about things, and he told me he definitely didn't want a girlfriend (he agreed to "date", but he was like..."after that there's only one way to go, and I don't want to go there)....Am I wasting my time? I always kid about the fact that he has no feelings, and I call him Ice.man...but I really don't know if he's trying to protect himself or he really doesn't give a shit about me.
bare in mind, he's never had a girlfriend. EVER. I'm the only girl he's ever dated "formally", and the only one he has introduced to his parents. On the other hand, a month ago I told him I was dating someone else, and that we couldn't see each other anymore and he didn't try to convince me otherwise...he got mad, and he kept calling me all the time, but he did not once said he wanted anyhing more than we had (other guy turned out to be in love. I think I don't like man when they are in love..so I went back to the booty calls).I just realized I'm not making much sense, but I'm hung-over :(


sooo, help me out! should I give him a chance??? Am I being a stupid woman as usual??? do you think that if I haven't been able to make him fall for me so far, I don't stand a chance??

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2009, 12:25 
Have you tried turning it off and on again
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Honestly I think since he's getting sex for free, without any strings attached, why would he want to go "legit" and do the whole serious dating thing? I mean you say yourself you don't like men in love, or that's what I got from that statement, and that you'd go back to the booty calls, so who in their right mind would say no to that? Make up your mind about if you like him or not. If yes, then stop being his plaything for a few weeks and you'll get your answer.


Sorry if I was a little blunt.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2009, 12:58 
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crimsonred wrote:
Honestly I think since he's getting sex for free, without any strings attached, why would he want to go "legit" and do the whole serious dating thing? I mean you say yourself you don't like men in love, or that's what I got from that statement, and that you'd go back to the booty calls, so who in their right mind would say no to that? Make up your mind about if you like him or not. If yes, then stop being his plaything for a few weeks and you'll get your answer.


Sorry if I was a little blunt.


nah, when I don't like man in love I mean I'm not really the kind of sweet little girl who likes candy, flowers and letters. This other guy did, that's why I broke it off.
My guy isn't like that at all, and i do really like him...but do you think punishing him with no sex is gonna get me anywhere? would it work for you?
I'm not going out with him until he asks me out on a date, but don't you think he should want to spend more time with me, regardless of the sex?

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2009, 13:50 
Have you tried turning it off and on again
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I didn't mean it like punishment. All I'm saying is if I was in that guy's position, here's what I will have: free sex, no commitments, no real dates, no complications. So why would anybody NOT want that? So what I'm suggesting is try not having sex with him for sometime, that will probably make him realize that he can't take you for granted. And if he responds by getting serious, you can probably test the waters by going out on "real" dates. Not saying that even then he won't just do that just to get you into bed, but atleast you can make a better judgment then.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 19 Jul 2009, 14:25 
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Honestly, I tried pretty much the same thing. I'd say if the sex is good, keep up with it, but don't expect a relationship. It sounds as though he's simply not ready for a relationship or is too selfish to have one. If he decides that he likes you enough to keep you around and give you the relationship that you want, yay for you. But if not, don't keep yourself from being happy if the opportunity arises. Sorry if that was a little vague, I'm still pretty hungover.


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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 05:16 
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First and foremost, you are the only one who knows what you want and what you need to make you happy. You can tell someone and explain it to them, but they will obviously have there own outlook on the situation and derive their own conclusions. Knowing that, you have to realize that he too will have his own goals, feelings, etc. You know yours, they are clear in your head and you understand them because you thought them, he didn't so it is harder for him to understand it the same as you do.
He might not explain his feelings or what he wants, he might not explain it well, he might lie or make it up because he could get embarrassed, you might mis interpret it, you could derive your own conclusion because of the mood you were in when he tells you.
I think what I'm trying to explain is sort of like Chinese Whispers, you know, where one sentence is passed from person to person in private and the end result is a completely different interpretation of the original sentence... None of this is helping your situation though, but here's hoping that it will help show my retort is because of my interpretation of your situation. That way, you can best understand me when I say, "you are the only one who knows what you want and what you need to make you happy."

You need to do your thing, the way you want it done, if it suits him to come along for the ride, then yer in luck because ye obviously have the platonic thing down. But, and this cannot be said enough, you need to do it not say it. Just put your needs ahead of his. After time, you can bend your needs for different situations to conform to situations you have learned that he needs, this is compromise, but at this early stage where, from what I gather, you don't really know each other that well, you need to look out for numero uno, that's how he'll learn your needs and how you will both find out if ye are really compatible.

Oh and, I'm not an expert or have had no training in dealing with this, but I have had relationships and I have certainly had a broken heart. You seem like a strong minded person, dive in and take the bull by the horns but don't be close minded, you will know if it wont work. Broken hearts always mend!!

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 06:50 
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^ what he said.

you know what you want. lay it on the table. "This is how I feel. this is what I want. lets try it," If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I know I'd definately prefer to look back and say "fuck, that didn't work out" or "awesome, i'm so happy" than to wonder what could have been, what might have been.

If he doesn't move with it, you've got to wonder if he really cares about you romantically, or if he's just interested in the sex. If he doesn't care for you romantically, and is there for his own end so to speak, you deserve better. You're intelligent, funny, social, pretty and caring young girl; you're a catch. Hopefully he'll be interested and take the trainer wheels off. If not, you'll find out sooner rather than later, and won't be as hurt by the situation.

I also think that when you proposition him, as hard as it sounds, you should take the sex off the table. If it's still on the table, he isn't really forced into making a decision. If the sex is there he can still see you and be with you. Without it he has to evaluate whether he truly cares about you or just what you do with him physically.

It's a big decision, best of luck with it, and I hope it works out for you Yerl. If not at least you know where you stand and can then revaluate whether you want to be in a purely physical relationship yourself, or move on completely.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 12:26 
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why don't you call him up during the day and say "Hey I have tickets to this [sporting event/movie here] would you like to go? " pick him up and profit.

Do it a few times and then AFTER the 3rd or 4th time, say something like 'haven't these dates been fun' and then give him a bj or whatever and see what he does.

Don't let him realize they are 'dates' even though, really, they are....


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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 12:41 
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Anon wrote:
why don't you call him up during the day and say "Hey I have tickets to this [sporting event/movie here] would you like to go? " pick him up and profit.

Do it a few times and then AFTER the 3rd or 4th time, say something like 'haven't these dates been fun' and then give him a bj or whatever and see what he does.

Don't let him realize they are 'dates' even though, really, they are....



Lol, I don't think he is THAT stupid....

I'm gonna do it the old fashion way, wait for him to call and ask me out. If he doesn't and he just texts me friday at 3 am like he usually does....then he is a douche and totally not worth it
It's gonna hurt


wish me luck


and thank you all guys for giving me advice....I try to solve things myself but sometimes I need a different point of view

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 12:46 
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LOL, on a different note my ex (the super douche bag) is telling me he had swine flu and pneumonia and was in the hospital for 5 days. He is OK now.

PAYBACK IS A BITCH


I should't feel happy.....but I kind of am

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 12:47 
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some guys, like myself, just don't realize what you want and if you want to sit back and wait for it, don't be disappointed when it doesn't happen. If you put yourself out there and invite him to a futbol game, then you might have your answer.


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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 12:52 
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Anon wrote:
some guys, like myself, just don't realize what you want and if you want to sit back and wait for it, don't be disappointed when it doesn't happen. If you put yourself out there and invite him to a futbol game, then you might have your answer.


I told him on saturday I wasn't gonna go out with him until he asks me out for a drink or sth. If he's not even up for that (but I'm sure he is 'cause he told me he wanted to go to the theatre) then I'm not gonna do anything about that because he is obviously just with me for the sex.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 20 Jul 2009, 12:56 
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Here's wishing you the best of luck :)

Stay strong in your decisions. It'll stand to you moreso than fooling someone into giving you the attention you need.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 05:12 
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i agree with anon though. i'm one of those guys too. quite good at reading friend's relationships but can't see whats in front of my face half the time. helps if the girl doesn't fuck round with their games and that. just straight up let him know how it is.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 07:44 
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YerlA wrote:
Before I start I'd like to remind you this is Sanctuary Mzz :)


You wrote this because you already knew the answer. You can't make people take steps they don't want to take.

Furthermore, you initiated this relationship with him on that level - you can't demand that the playing field be changed because you are catching feelings - it's not what he signed up for 5-6 months ago, you know that.

You can give him the option to continue seeing you in a more mature manner, but it can't be an ultimatum. A wife gives a cheating husband an ultimatum - it's different you know...

I'm guility of this too right now also, so I get it. I have this chick who is catching feelings who I should have dropped 2 weeks ago but it was too much effort and I didn't feel like dealing with more stress.

And honestly, drinks aren't even dating - you take a fuck buddy drinking - so if he can't even match up to that small a commitment, he is a either cheap, a douche, or an amateur - either way, not impressive.

Also, if you get worked up over it he'll feel like he has the right to call you at 2 am still (and one night you will be horny and fuck him too) so make sure you just look down on him so that he gets it loud and clear. Don't be apathetic - give him the "you don't want me, great I wanted a hotter guy anyway" or something along those lines.

Remember the secret, most young twenty something guys have zero self esteem / self worth so fucking own this guy - don't let him get the upper hand by being able to claim he used you.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 08:55 
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mzziqztixl wrote:
YerlA wrote:
Before I start I'd like to remind you this is Sanctuary Mzz :)


You wrote this because you already knew the answer. You can't make people take steps they don't want to take.

Furthermore, you initiated this relationship with him on that level - you can't demand that the playing field be changed because you are catching feelings - it's not what he signed up for 5-6 months ago, you know that.

You can give him the option to continue seeing you in a more mature manner, but it can't be an ultimatum. A wife gives a cheating husband an ultimatum - it's different you know...

I'm guility of this too right now also, so I get it. I have this chick who is catching feelings who I should have dropped 2 weeks ago but it was too much effort and I didn't feel like dealing with more stress.

And honestly, drinks aren't even dating - you take a fuck buddy drinking - so if he can't even match up to that small a commitment, he is a either cheap, a douche, or an amateur - either way, not impressive.

Also, if you get worked up over it he'll feel like he has the right to call you at 2 am still (and one night you will be horny and fuck him too) so make sure you just look down on him so that he gets it loud and clear. Don't be apathetic - give him the "you don't want me, great I wanted a hotter guy anyway" or something along those lines.

Remember the secret, most young twenty something guys have zero self esteem / self worth so fucking own this guy - don't let him get the upper hand by being able to claim he used you.



I disagree with half of this (or, if you want to be positive, i agree with half of it)

I def won't let him have the upper hand, and I'm never using the "you used me line", 'cause at the end of the day i'm using him too. But the thing is, we used to date and I broke up with him---so really, my question was around those lines...do you think he doesn't want to date 'cause he doesn't trust me, or because he just doesn't give a shit? And the reason I ask this is because he is not hooking up with other girls (yes, I know, as far as I'm concerned. But I told him I was seeing this other guy and he got offended...but still told me he wasn't....and that would have been a good time to bring the subject up) so I don't really see the point in not dating if it's not because you want to see other people-

now, why can't I give him an ultimatum? we started seeing each other and no one ever talked about our title....why shouldn't I be able to want to take a step forward? If he doesn't want to, he is more than welcome to take one back, but I can sure tell him I'm not seeing him anymore(=> ultimatum)

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 09:02 
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okay - i'll try to hit everything.

I didn't know (maybe didn't read) that you had actually been dating - but that is a loose term. What does dating mean? To me dating is the most ephemeral word in romantic relationships.

And let me clue you in to men's insecurity here: once some other guy has been where we were - shit changes. It doesn't matter how many were before me, it's that you substituted someone else for him.

As for not giving a shit, it may be this - without knowing anything about him I can render no judgment.

Because an ultimatum is forcing an issue, it should flow one way or another - making him make a choice isn't natural for whatever reason. It could be that he is just not ready but that doesn't mean he wants to ditch you either. Plus, what about his history? Everyone has skeletons - a lot of that shit hurts, sometimes it hurts enough that you take a long time to open back up even a little bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 09:11 
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mzziqztixl wrote:
okay - i'll try to hit everything.

I didn't know (maybe didn't read) that you had actually been dating - but that is a loose term. What does dating mean? To me dating is the most ephemeral word in romantic relationships.

And let me clue you in to men's insecurity here: once some other guy has been where we were - shit changes. It doesn't matter how many were before me, it's that you substituted someone else for him.

As for not giving a shit, it may be this - without knowing anything about him I can render no judgment.

Because an ultimatum is forcing an issue, it should flow one way or another - making him make a choice isn't natural for whatever reason. It could be that he is just not ready but that doesn't mean he wants to ditch you either. Plus, what about his history? Everyone has skeletons - a lot of that shit hurts, sometimes it hurts enough that you take a long time to open back up even a little bit.



I know, and you are right about that...but...come on, the guy is fucking ice man, and I'm pretty sure if it were for him we would stay this way for ever. He considers me his woman (introduced me to all of his friends, for eg) but only on week-ends. wtf. I'm not asking for much, I don't even have time for a relationship atm, but having drinks and going to see a movie is not "forcing an issue". That's what I said before, if he's not even willing to do THAT, then...should I wait for him to grow the fuck up or am I just wasting my time?

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 12:46 
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you telling him doesn't mean anything he forgot that the moment he left your presence. If you want a boyfriend, take him on a date.


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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 15:39 
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Wasting your time.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 15:45 
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After reading this entire thread I have realized 2 things:
1.) Guys, if left unchecked, are total dicks.
2.) Girls are complete morons.

Seriously YerlA, you are young, desirable, beautiful, athletic, intelligent, caring, and have a decent sense of humor. Why in God's name are you fucking around with this loser? He wants SEX nothing else, no amount of pleading, begging, bitching or whining is gonna change that. Dump this guy like a Taco Bell Turd and find someone who will treat you well and respect you as a person not as a life support system for a pussy.

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 15:47 
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dageaux wrote:
After reading this entire thread I have realized 2 things:
1.) Guys, if left unchecked, are total dicks.
2.) Girls are complete morons.

Seriously YerlA, you are young, desirable, beautiful, athletic, intelligent, caring, and have a decent sense of humor. Why in God's name are you fucking around with this loser? He wants SEX nothing else, no amount of pleading, begging, bitching or whining is gonna change that. Dump this guy like a Taco Bell Turd and find someone who will treat you well and respect you as a person not as a life support system for a pussy.

:rofl: i love ya dag :)

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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 16:18 
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you can't have a boyfriend if YOU don't want to put any work into it.

My advice is still the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 16:25 
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I know the situation, Yerla. I was in it. Fortunately, dude ended up getting a girlfriend and cheating on her with me, and that turned me off enough to know I don't want to be in a relationship with a dude like that.
Now that he broke up with her, I have no interest in being his girlfriend, just a fuck buddy.

If it weren't for him getting a girlfriend, though, I'd probably be in the exact same boat. :P


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 Post subject: Re: Once again...
PostPosted: 21 Jul 2009, 19:26 
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dageaux wrote:
After reading this entire thread I have realized 2 things:
1.) Guys, if left unchecked, are total dicks.
2.) Girls are complete morons.

Seriously YerlA, you are young, desirable, beautiful, athletic, intelligent, caring, and have a decent sense of humor. Why in God's name are you fucking around with this loser? He wants SEX nothing else, no amount of pleading, begging, bitching or whining is gonna change that. Dump this guy like a Taco Bell Turd and find someone who will treat you well and respect you as a person not as a life support system for a pussy.


damn, at least I KNOW i'm a moron

I'm still giving him a chance till the weekend....even so, i do not think he is an asshole or a loser for not wanting a relationship with me


---I'll report back after the weekend :D---

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