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 Post subject: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 21 Nov 2009, 15:17 
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Will move forward.

Thank god.

I'd be ashamed of any legislator who didn't support moving forward with the debate.

It doesn't mean it has to pass the way it is, it just means it will be discussed and I can't tell you how disgusted I am with people who claim to be in the interest of the individual and won't even discuss how to help the roughly 1 in 10 individuals with no plan.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009, 13:12 
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Like Hell I'm Going To Let Some Black President Help Me Pay For Dialysis

I take pride in who I am. Always have, always will. I've worked hard my whole life and have never taken anyone's charity, and I'm not about to start now, no matter what. I'm telling you, there's no way I'm going to sit back and let some black president of the United States try to devise a structure to help me pay for the dialysis treatment I so desperately need to survive.

Not over my dead body.

Just who does this Afro-American occupant of the highest office in the land think he is, anyway? Look, I've got nothing against black people, but some of them act like the whole world owes them something. For example, important government subsidies on my dialysis.

You know, I don't recall asking for some black commander in chief to embrace protections that would prohibit insurance companies from dropping my coverage on a whim and operating as if my continued existence on earth were nothing more than a strategic liability. Plus, if I go along with this progressive health-benefits scheme, he'll probably hold it over my head every time I receive vital care with the aid of the government to which I already pay taxes.

Sorry. I've got too much self-respect for that.

Obama needs to know that there's still one American willing to watch his body drown in its own deadly internal toxins rather than have long-overdue reform crammed down his throat.

Fact is, nobody wants some too-big-for-his-britches black president butting in to suggest that everyone, including me, needs to be treated with dignity. Yet this Obama thinks he can just waltz in and and tinker with a health care system that destroys people like myself every single day.

Can you imagine what'd it be like if he weren't just half black?

Seriously, when Obama's done drumming up support for legislation that might allow me to see my daughter graduate from college and prevent me from dying before my 50th birthday, what's next on the agenda? Will he try to keep my life's savings from evaporating in a stock market that operates free of serious governmental oversight? Is there any aspect of capitalism run amok that this guy won't tamper with? Really, Obama, thanks but no thanks. The last person I need help from is some black leader of the federal government in a position to perhaps improve my quality of life.

The worst part is that I'll have to put up with this guy being a black president for at least three more years. I guess all I can do is try to hold out for the 2012 election. Maybe then we'll get a white president back in office. Maybe he'll have the common decency to let me suffer in peace.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 28 Nov 2009, 15:23 
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Like Hell I'm Going To Let Some Black President Help Me Pay For Dialysis

I take pride in who I am. Always have, always will. I've worked hard my whole life and have never taken anyone's charity, and I'm not about to start now, no matter what. I'm telling you, there's no way I'm going to sit back and let some black president of the United States try to devise a structure to help me pay for the dialysis treatment I so desperately need to survive.

Not over my dead body.


Is this serious? Fucking lol'd at that. :rofl:


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009, 16:41 
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http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion ... o_let_some


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009, 21:47 
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Talking about health care and stuff, you heard from Miss B Mzz?

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 29 Nov 2009, 21:49 
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Mark Peterman wrote:
Talking about health care and stuff, you heard from Miss B Mzz?

Lol :(

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 30 Nov 2009, 00:16 
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I sent her a text back in like June. I never heard back. I googled her name a couple times too to make sure she wasn't dead. Didn't find anything in the Seattle news. Lol :(

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2009, 03:02 
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but yea... its a damn shame that in the most powerful and influential nation in the world we cannot bring ourselves to help our fellow man, like every other industrialized nation.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2009, 09:20 
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viper5552 wrote:
but yea... its a damn shame that in the most powerful and influential nation in the world we cannot bring ourselves to help our fellow man, like every other industrialized nation.

because medicare/medicaid, welfare, housing assistance (HUD), food stamps, WIC, Public schools, tax returns for people with no income, federal student grants, unemployment insurance, and a plethora of other social programs that can trace their roots back to Roosevelt aren't helping our fellow man...

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 02 Dec 2009, 14:31 
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dageaux wrote:
because medicare/medicaid, welfare, housing assistance (HUD), food stamps, WIC, Public schools, tax returns for people with no income, federal student grants, unemployment insurance, and a plethora of other social programs that can trace their roots back to Roosevelt aren't helping our fellow man...


reread this.

then punch yourself in the face really fucking hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 06 Dec 2009, 15:38 
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dageaux wrote:
because medicare/medicaid, welfare, housing assistance (HUD), food stamps, WIC, Public schools, tax returns for people with no income, federal student grants, unemployment insurance, and a plethora of other social programs that can trace their roots back to Roosevelt aren't helping our fellow man...


yes yes that is all nice and good, and a step in the right direction, but we need to go further, the state provides for the education, security, social security, and other programs, why cannot it provide for the medical treatment of ALL of its citizens so they don't have to be subjected to the mistreatment of HMOs and insurance companies and the absolutely ridiculous pricing of the American health care system.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2009, 09:13 
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Because hundreds of thousands of folks in the free market system make their living selling insurance.

Let's take it a step further then. Why can't the government provide it's citizens with all the food they need? Why can't the gov't provide us all with housing? Why can't the gov't provide 62 inch TV's for the masses? And where the hell is my damned Escalade?

Where does it stop? I honestly believe that human nature dictates that people will be as lazy and worthless as you allow them to be. Only by providing positive reinforcement for positive behavior and negative reinforcement for negative behavior can we keep society functional and productive.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2009, 17:06 
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We wouldn't be having this discussion if people just ate an apple everyday.


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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 08 Dec 2009, 17:22 
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dageaux wrote:
Because hundreds of thousands of folks in the free market system make their living selling insurance.


there would still be private insurance, and it may even become more popular than the government OPTION (because ya know, it being an OPTION makes it possible for people to CHOOSE not to particpate)

dageaux wrote:
Let's take it a step further then. Why can't the government provide it's citizens with all the food they need? Why can't the gov't provide us all with housing? Why can't the gov't provide 62 inch TV's for the masses? And where the hell is my damned Escalade?

Where does it stop? I honestly believe that human nature dictates that people will be as lazy and worthless as you allow them to be. Only by providing positive reinforcement for positive behavior and negative reinforcement for negative behavior can we keep society functional and productive.


it is the government's responsibility to see that the BASIC NEEDS for its citizens are met. that's why we have things like food stamps, WIC, & homebuying assistance packages. Shelters get assitence i guess by being tax free for non profits (now that i think about it, that area could use some help too..)
making sure these people can get access to basic health care needs (keyword here: BASIC - gotta pony up for anything unnecessary) is the next logical choice


or if you want, we could always make police, fire & ambulance services subscribtion or pay-per-use based, and have you sign forms authorizing payment while your house burns down. oh, you're stuck at work? oops..


tv's and automotives definately do not fall under the category of basic necessities.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2009, 07:16 
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Arcing Ropes Of Jism wrote:
We wouldn't be having this discussion if people just ate an apple everyday.


hehe...


No need to be so extreme with thoughts dag...just because some people doesn't have the same opportunities/capacities it doesn't mean they should die. I can't believe your health system....you won't work on someone who need medical care if they don't have health insurance?? I think that's inhuman.
And if the government doensn't want to give money to "lazy people" then they need to get them jobs. and if there aren't enough jobs......well, there you go

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2009, 07:43 
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rogallia wrote:

it is the government's responsibility to see that the BASIC NEEDS for its citizens are met.


Really? It is? The 3 branches of government are Executive, Legislative, and Judicial. All 3 are there with regards to the LAW - not the BASIC NEEDS of the people.

I always thought that the fundamental purpose of government is the maintenance of basic security and public order. It is the people's responsibility to themselves and their children/families to provide the BASIC NEEDS. Do I think that it's great if the government can provide these things? Sure. I just don't think that it's their responsibility.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 09 Dec 2009, 17:27 
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^^^^^^^ Have you ever read the constitution?????????????

Let me just educate you real fast on the country you live and what our government is do for US as outlined in our country's "charter"

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ENSURE DOMESTICE TRANQUILITY, provide for the common defense, PROTECT THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 13:58 
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Your right Mzz, I am finally convinced. The founding fathers were planning all along to become a welfare state. It says so right there in the preamble.... I mean sure PROTECT THE WELFARE is just olde english for PROVIDE WELFARE.

reread this.

then punch yourself in the face really fucking hard.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 16:07 
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a) ROFL!

b) you know what I'm getting at. The welfare of the nation is not looked after when 10% of do not have access to basic medical care that WE ARE PROVIDING IN OTHER COUNTRIES in many instances. Let the debate begin.

Therefore.

FUCK YOU I WIN.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 17:18 
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mzziqztixl wrote:
a) ROFL!

b) you know what I'm getting at. The welfare of the nation is not looked after when 10% of do not have access to basic medical care that WE ARE PROVIDING IN OTHER COUNTRIES in many instances. Let the debate begin.

Therefore.

FUCK YOU I WIN.



mm just a few months ago wasn't there a big news story about that navy hospital ship that sailed down to south america to give all their kids free dental cleanings? i must look up that story...

meanwhile, my fiance would never have been able to afford getting his cavity drilled and it was almost to the point of needing a root canal (my dad's a dentist and fixed it but thats besides the point)


dag, isn't your wife an rn at a hospital? ask her how many people in the emergency room wouldn't have to be their if they could instead afford to go to a regular physician visits, or what amount of injuries/sickness they now have that require an er could've been prevented with regular health checkups. these are the people that cause the 8 hour long waits, because a hospital is not allowed to turn anyone away who needs care.


so what is it, preciesly, that you don't like about a public health care option?
you prefer your current insurance - keep it. we won't say anything, either, when a low cost government plan causes people to switch to it which then forces the insurance companies to come up with affordable minimal plans and will probably cut a few bucks off your own premium.

its going to raise your taxes? boo fucking hoo. there are over 4 billion people in this country-it would raise your taxes by $5, if they were going to do that - one less trip to mcdonald's would be an added benefit. they're however not planning on raising taxes; hopefully theyll be taking the money away from all the research on how to efficiently kill people and give it to the ones who want to efficiently heal people.
if you don't like paying taxes to care for the good of the whole, then as i said before we'll put all emergency services on a subscription plan. having a heart attack? sorry, you're late on your payments. heck while we're at it, lets add schools, DoT and everything else in there.

worried about the national debt? the us has been in a constant state of debt until the second term of clinton, and then ol' georgie boy had to throw us into an illegal, unethical war (is there such thing as a legal war?) whos bills are just now coming due - that is 87% of our debt. you want to complain about debt, you take it up with people spending all our money in other countries, not those wanting to take care of those at home.


this 'discussion' is getting really annoying. its like a 3 way tug of war that no ones going to win.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 19:26 
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damnit Dag why do you have to see this as "we are spending money for lazy people who can't afford insurance"???
Ok, maybe some of them are, what about their children? Should they be deprived of HEALTH just because of capitalism? America has the resources to provide a decent health system that doesn't differenciate between poor and rich, so I don't see why you shouldn't do it....I mean, I live in Argentina and we have public health and education ..........
and please MAN stop making this a competition to see who's right or wrong, that's not gonna change anything

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 20:25 
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economically speaking. fuck the poor. their problem, people respond to incentives. they should work harder, get a better job, increase their ability to pay for their own healthcare, rather than sit back and take handouts.
realistically, it's not that easy. people go through rough times. shit happens. bad stuff happens to good, honest people. is letting them die the answer?

but i don't know enough about your country to argue either way...

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 21:21 
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First, Ro, my wife works at a Charity hospital, no one there can afford shit, including what they are there for. That is all paid for by the state I live in (yay Louisiana) and their caseload consists almost entirely of trauma, mostly gunshot and knife wounds, so no, preventive health care would do them no good at all. Being the only Level One Trauma Center within a 100 mile radius means that all the really bad shit goes to her hospital. What would prevent them from getting gunshots and knifed would be if they got JOBS instead of hanging out in the projects selling drugs and illicit sex, and trying to rob from one another.

The system we have in place now provides for children already. With Medicare, Medicaid, and programs like LaChiP no one can honestly say that they can't provide health care for their children or elderly. That is what we already have. What I don't like is telling me that it is mandated by law that everyone MUST have health insurance of some kind, because that means that someone must PAY for that insurance for those who can't afford it (most likely those who are already paying for their own coverage). Nor do I honestly believe that giving something away is the way to solve the problem.

Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man to fish and he can feed himself for life.

I don't honestly think I am going to change anyone's mind, nor do I think of this as a competition, but this issue pisses me off for very personal reasons, because I already support one worthless fucking bitch who won't work just because I put my dick in her a couple times. I refuse to support a whole nation of worthless bitches I didn't even get to fuck.

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 23:01 
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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Dag I Love you so much I really do ROFL!

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 Post subject: Re: Health Care Debate
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 23:17 
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mzziqztixl wrote:
^^^^^^^ Have you ever read the constitution?????????????

Let me just educate you real fast on the country you live and what our government is do for US as outlined in our country's "charter"

"We the people, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ENSURE DOMESTICE TRANQUILITY, provide for the common defense, PROTECT THE GENERAL WELFARE, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. "


Yes, I've read the Constitution. I'm happy to see that you think quoting the preamble is what is going to educate me "real fast" on the "country I live and what our government is do."

Notice that it says "PROTECT" the general welfare - not PROVIDE general welfare. Ensuring Domestic Tranquility has absolutely nothing to do with the health of our citizens and is irrelevant to this argument. That is a reference to providing security within our borders by establishing a military and allowing for militias. I'm not certain why you stressed it as if it were important to this debate.

Anyway, this is all really quite petty in the grand scheme of things.

Do I think that our government should provide a public option if possible? Yes, but there are details that need to be ironed out - like anything. iThe only reason that it is not available is because of all the lobbyists in Washington. Why SHOULDN'T health care be provided to those that cannot provide it for themselves? What makes the elderly so much more important than the rest of us?

I'm willing to hear other sides of the debate and if something makes sense, I'll consider it. I just can't think of a GOOD reason to NOT provide a public option to the masses...

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