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 Post subject: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2010, 16:26 
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http://www.alternet.org/rights/145956/u ... scarriages

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2010, 23:26 
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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 08:39 
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For chrissakes, this is such a gigantic step back for women's civil liberties it honestly would be less crushing to a mental level if I were watching a proclaimation that all mormon women were required to wear a ballgag and give out anal sex for $5.

Plus, this legislation is coming out of a case where some spineless pussy knocked a girl up and made her so scared for her future that she went to an extreme that is staggering. I'd say kill the boyfriend, maybe rehab the mother, and find the guy who beat her up and just be like..."really dude?" then shoot him too.

Actually, kill the mother for being a dumb bitch and not protecting her child.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 09:48 
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it is only for reckless miscarriages. I support the concept that people who drink, smoke, hot tub and roller coaster while pregnant, should go to jail or abort their child.


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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 12:59 
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I'm all for THAT but it leaves the door open for a whole bunch of stuff I'm not okay with.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 13:49 
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Anon wrote:
it is only for reckless miscarriages. I support the concept that people who drink, smoke, hot tub and roller coaster while pregnant, should go to jail or abort their child.


Nothing wrong with any of those things Anon. Emma's mom did all of that and look how well she's turned out.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 15:28 
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Anon wrote:
it is only for reckless miscarriages. I support the concept that people who drink, smoke, hot tub and roller coaster while pregnant, should go to jail or abort their child.


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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 20:59 
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Anon wrote:
it is only for reckless miscarriages. I support the concept that people who drink, smoke, hot tub and roller coaster while pregnant, should go to jail or abort their child.


we all know its not going to stop there. unless you have yourself under video surveillance 24/7, there's no way to prove a miscarriage wasn't done by something you did. She could even have a natural miscarriage, and be put in jail for it.

the case that caused this law would never have happened if abortions weren't such a taboo procedure in conservative culture. until the baby leaves the mother and becomes an individual, no one should have a say of what a woman can or cannot do to her body.

a woman that wants to drink, go roller-coasting, etc. while pregnant is a grade A asshole, and her selfishness could very likely affect the baby detrimentally for the rest of its life. but its laws like these that aim to protect people from themselves that allow for such reckless behaviour in the first place by reinforcing the thought that someone else is going to tell you about and deal with the consequences, you don't need to think ahead for yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2010, 22:56 
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Judges are people, too. To assume a person of that authority has an opinion contrary to your own is your own failing. I hear less about corrupt judges than I do about stupid people commiting heinous crimes. Laws like this allow the court to punish unacceptable behavior to the degree that it should be.
It is not a step backward for women's civil liberties. It is not a woman's right to abuse an unborn child. Was adoption even a consideration by these sub-humans? Would-be adoptive parents will pay for everything and compensate the mother in some situations. I am pro-choice BTW. I can understand terminating an unwanted pregnancy in a safe, controlled way, not what they were doing.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2010, 10:06 
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skroo wrote:
Judges are people, too. To assume a person of that authority has an opinion contrary to your own is your own failing. I hear less about corrupt judges than I do about stupid people commiting heinous crimes. Laws like this allow the court to punish unacceptable behavior to the degree that it should be.
It is not a step backward for women's civil liberties. It is not a woman's right to abuse an unborn child. Was adoption even a consideration by these sub-humans? Would-be adoptive parents will pay for everything and compensate the mother in some situations. I am pro-choice BTW. I can understand terminating an unwanted pregnancy in a safe, controlled way, not what they were doing.


Of course, but if you are a student of the American legal system you must be aware that is always starts from a case that has nothing to do with a case except the judicial precedent and jurisprudence invovled. Thus to me, it does not seem unreasonable that the zealots of this country will try to move this in the direction of ANY pregnancy termination is murder or a heinous crime or what not.

Bottom line is : it is murder but on a higher plane of thought because we have too many people on this planet as it is. You can prove easily that is someone else taking a life - which means that the door is now wide open - and since I am overwhlemingly pro choice because women must be in control of their lives and futures, I am terrified that some slick shit lawyer who can talk will be able to convince the Supreme Court into striking down Roe v Wade and then I'm pretty sure our society will be effed in the A.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2010, 21:29 
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mzziqztixl wrote:
Thus to me, it does not seem unreasonable that the zealots of this country will try to move this in the direction of ANY pregnancy termination is murder or a heinous crime or what not.

You underestimate yourself and all other rational thinking Americans. Our government fucks with us by all forms of manipulation because we're too fucking comforatble with letting it. But do you really think the majority of citizens will just stand by and let them tread on civil liberties? There are liberal and conservative judges. The law is made to change and adjust to situations and changes in what is considered socially acceptable. I think you are dehumanizing the process. In general, I would say laws have supported progressive thinking in the US in the last 100 years.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2010, 04:29 
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skroo wrote:
mzziqztixl wrote:
Thus to me, it does not seem unreasonable that the zealots of this country will try to move this in the direction of ANY pregnancy termination is murder or a heinous crime or what not.

You underestimate yourself and all other rational thinking Americans. Our government fucks with us by all forms of manipulation because we're too fucking comforatble with letting it. But do you really think the majority of citizens will just stand by and let them tread on civil liberties? There are liberal and conservative judges. The law is made to change and adjust to situations and changes in what is considered socially acceptable. I think you are dehumanizing the process. In general, I would say laws have supported progressive thinking in the US in the last 100 years.


1) people do let the government walk all over them (witness the warrentless phone tapping, etc.). all it takes is one smarty pants lawyer to lay precedent (and they will because the majority of lawyers morals are bounded only by their paycheck), and then conservative judges will be able to condemn women in an instant.
2) laws may have been generally 'progressive' in the past century or so, but when it comes down to abortion and gay rights this country is becoming more conservative by the day. california isn't the only state that revoked gay marriage after legalizing it, and anti-abortion clauses are a major part of what is holding up the health care bills.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2010, 16:29 
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You underestimate your own voices. You don't want to play on an even field. You don't want to play if you can't win. You don't want to compromise with someone else who has a right to their own opinions as taxpaying citizens. Oh my God, what if you are the one who, good intentioned undoubtedly, could none the less be wrong and not understand the full implications of getting what you want (read as, what the salesmen tell you you want).
Wiretapping? If it means I can go to a concert or use a train and not worry so much about underwear bombers and bio-terrorism, is that bad? I don't think the government is going to throw me in jail for making Obama jokes or deciding to eat Chinese instead of pizza on a Friday evening or whatever state secrets I mention in my calls or post on the internet.
Abortion? Roe v. Wade will never be overturned on a federal level. State level, maybe. But that is okay with me. I don't have to live in that state and if I do I can fight to change the law.
For each conservative and liberal shouting things that scare you, there are 8 people standing between them who disagree to to a degree relevant to their position in line.
I laugh at people who argue abortion, gun control, prayer in school, global warming, and all the other lightning rod topics. They are unfortunately unaware that they are pawns or they are recruiting pawns. What other pork gets added to lightning rod bills are our political magicians true slight of hand trick and what we should really be worrying about.
There are people getting rich off your fabricated fears and these people are not helping you or your fabricated causes. Yeah, Al Gore, I'm looking at you.
I'm not trivializing your arguments and opinions. I just think you should step back and see a broader picture of what is happening. You can't stop wanting to learn as soon as you get comfortable with what you have learned so far.
Point is, there is nothing right about what those kids did. Not passing a law will make it okay for others to do it if they feel they can get away with it. Fuck those kids. I'll do nothing to align myself with troglodytes.

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2010, 16:37 
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skroo wrote:
You underestimate your own voices. You don't want to play on an even field. You don't want to play if you can't win. You don't want to compromise with someone else who has a right to their own opinions as taxpaying citizens. Oh my God, what if you are the one who, good intentioned undoubtedly, could none the less be wrong and not understand the full implications of getting what you want (read as, what the salesmen tell you you want).
Wiretapping? If it means I can go to a concert or use a train and not worry so much about underwear bombers and bio-terrorism, is that bad? I don't think the government is going to throw me in jail for making Obama jokes or deciding to eat Chinese instead of pizza on a Friday evening or whatever state secrets I mention in my calls or post on the internet.
Abortion? Roe v. Wade will never be overturned on a federal level. State level, maybe. But that is okay with me. I don't have to live in that state and if I do I can fight to change the law.
For each conservative and liberal shouting things that scare you, there are 8 people standing between them who disagree to to a degree relevant to their position in line.
I laugh at people who argue abortion, gun control, prayer in school, global warming, and all the other lightning rod topics. They are unfortunately unaware that they are pawns or they are recruiting pawns. What other pork gets added to bills are our political magicians true slight of hand trick and what we should really be worrying about.
There are people getting rich off your fabricated fears and these people are not helping you or your fabricated causes. Yeah, Al Gore, I'm looking at you.
I'm not trivializing your arguments and opinions. I just think you should step back and see a broader picture of what is happening. You can't stop wanting to learn as soon as you get comfortable with what you have learned so far.
Point is, there is nothing right about what those kids did. Not passing a law will make it okay for others to do it if they feel they can get away with it. Fuck those kids. I'll do nothing to align myself with troglodytes.



If it was just about justice, then why didn't it just become a standard attempted murder trial ? Obviously, you are not seeing your own broad picture because this was planned and methodically executed to grant a conservative foothold with which to judge all other future judicial precedent by. Why did a new law need to be paseed? Was there some question of punishement? Where the penalities not stiff enough for attempted murder, assault, reckless endangerment, child endangerment, assault with a deadly weapon, premeditated assault, etc etc etc. There are enough laws out there they could have locked these hooligans up for the rest of their lives.

But continue to believe that "we" are in power, I guess. I am not naive enough to ever think that I in any way have a true voice in the governing of my country. Rather, I am one more opinion among 300 million equally bad ones. But these are not voices. We are a republic, not a democracy and as such a few govern in the interests of the many (best case scenario).

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 Post subject: Re: www.WHAT THE FUCK .fu
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2010, 17:50 
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Yeah, I was really full of piss and vinegar there, wasn't I? That's part of the reason I ususally don't post until I've had time to unwind. Christ, I almost tl;dr'ed myself. From the article it suggested to me the court did have a problem trying to figure out an applicable law to prosecute with. One that addressed the hideous crime attempted. You say it was planned, and I know you are not suggesting the girl was involved in some political underhandedness, but how does that factor in? Were these politicians just waiting for an excuse to implement such laws with the idea that they could twist it for their own devices? I'm sure there are already existing laws to twist.
I can't find any compassion within myself for the kid or adults involved. Maybe a little for the girl, but damn. The father of the child probably didn't want the girl anymore, child or not.
I understand your point. Will the government abuse the law to encroach on our civil liberties? The people planting that seed are using this situation to further their own agenda. I truly believe that. The link between this law and legal abortion is long and weak.
To agree with you on some common ground, I will say, if the government wants your ass, they will get your ass. They don't have to be creative. This law won't help you or hurt you if the government wants to fuck you up. It might prevent other kids from making the mistake this girl did and prosecute the bastard who doesn't want to take responsibility for his dick happy underage girl banging ways.
I don't believe we have a true voice or power, but I do think the government bows to popular opinion with regards to civil liberties.

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